Black Moon Lilith – Mean Bitch or True Witch?

Mean or True – which do you use? This is one of those discussions between astrologers where everyone has an preference and opinion. Perhaps I should amend the word ‘everyone’ considering not every astrologer uses Black Moon Lilith. She is a contentious issue in some circles but despite some misgivings, she isn’t going away.

I’m not going to pretend for a second that I understood initially why I made my choice of which Black Moon to use. It was purely based on my association with the words ‘true’ and ‘mean’. Mean is just…well…nasty! “True is the truth” quipped my mind so I plumped for that version.

Black Moon LilithBut as I got to know Lilith and her essence got to know me, I started to toy with the mean version. I’m an astrologer after all and it’s important to figure out what works for each of us in practice. But Lilith turned mean. She didn’t want to play. She shouted me down. So before she truly kicked my backside, I reverted back to the True. Astrologers such as Marina at Darkstar Astrology and Kelley Hunter however have elegantly combined the use of both True and Mean Lilith.

But what exactly are we talking about when we talk about Mean and True Lilith?

I decided to go back and find out exactly what it was all about.

There is a subtle disagreement about what Lilith actually is in the chart. She is described as either the apogee of the Moon or the second foci of earth – huh?

Ok, so let’s start at the beginning.

The Moon travels around the Earth.

The Earth-Moon system travels around the Sun.

In a perfect world, much like those old fashioned astronomy pictures, the orbit of the Moon around the earth and the orbit of the Earth around the Sun would be perfect circles. But the universe isn’t perfect, not in that way anyway :-)

Black Moon Lilith - Apogee and Perigee

The orbit of the Moon around the earth is an elliptical shape rather than a perfect circle. This means that there isn’t one central point around which the Moon revolves, there are in fact two. One is inside the earth and the other – well the other is what we call Lilith. Astronomers however would call this other point the second foci. I struggled to get my head around this until I saw a picture of how to draw an ellipse which reminded me of my scary art teacher at school who used to throw various objects at you if you didn’t listen but I digress…

Check out this image here then come back…

The foci are centres of gravity. Lilith in this context has weight yet she is also invisible. Already we have a sense of her – a ghost in the system that affects us even though we can’t see her. It’s funny, in mythology, Lilith is repulsed by iron. The core of the earth is mostly iron. When I look at the two foci, I think of Earth on one side, Lilith on the other like two magnets facing north to north.

But some astrologers don’t think of Lilith as the second foci. From reading around the internet, I get the impression that far more astrologers think of Lilith as the apogee of the Moon.

Let’s go back to the Moon’s elliptical orbit around the Earth. If you check out my image above, you can see that the elliptical orbit will at one point put the Moon at the farthest point away from Earth that she can be. At the other end of the spectrum, she is at her closest to Earth. The furthest point away is the ‘apogee’, the nearest point is ‘perigee’. We see this in action with so called ‘supermoons‘ like that which occurred in March 2011. Supermoons are when the Full Moon coincides with the lunar perigee. At these times, the Full Moon looks super big!

Looking closely, you can see that from Earth’s point of view the second foci and the moon’s apogee are in the same sector of space, at the same degree in the zodiac as each other. So really when astrologers say Lilith is the second foci or Lilith is the apogee of the Moon, both are right. Personally, I take both points into account in the symbolism.

The thing is, astronomers and therefore astrologers have a hell of a time calculating the actual path of the Moon. The ellipse itself isn’t the clear straight line you see on my diagram. It’s wiggly like it was drawn with a seriously bad hangover. A combination of space factors such as the gravitational pull of the Sun tug at the Moon so that she wobbles around us.

So what has all this to do with mean and true Lilith?

Because astronomers can’t calculate precisely where the Moon is moving next, they use complex calculations to get a general idea of her current orbit. The mean orbit simply smoothes out all the potential wiggles in the line by working everything out on average. Once this mean orbit is plotted, the Moon’s apogee (or rather Lilith) can also be calculated.

True Lilith is calculated a little differently. In this case, the possible orbit is based on the moon’s current trajectory. The apogee/Lilith is calculated for that moment. In the next moment, that position may change. It makes me think of pulling a tarot card which predicts the future given the current situation. Change the present and you change the future. Lilith has this prophetic sense to her. A primal call deeply connected to the simple essence of being – and non-being. She is a wild card.

Mean Lilith never retrogrades whereas True Lilith leaps backwards and forwards through the zodiac seeming to echo her flight from the Garden of Paradise. Her eccentric course seems to say “I will go where I please – the hell with you!”. This wild motion to me seems more representative of Lilith’s energy. By re-visiting points or planets in the chart, she seems to be insisting we listen to her. By repetition, she makes her presence known.

True Lilith is technically called the ‘osculating apogee’. I’d not come across the word ‘osculating’ before so, ever the English student I looked up the meaning. It’s derived from the Latin word meaning ‘to kiss‘. Whilst I was there, I also looked up the etymology of ‘apogee‘ – it means ‘away from Earth’.

But what is most fascinating is this – Lilith is only truly defined when she is either exactly conjunct the Moon or exactly opposite the Moon. At all other times she is simply a potential who may or may not be really there. But when she is conjunct and opposite the Moon, that’s when we see her. The Moon brings her to life – or perhaps like a ghost, the Moon provides the psychic lens by which we can see her. I think there is far more study to do on this. Does Lilith conjunct or opposite the Moon in the birth chart manifest more acutely? In these positions is she given a voice like a spirit speaking through a medium? I have noticed some very stark manifestations in charts of clients who have True Lilith conjunct the Moon. More on that to come in the future.

I adore Lilith – both her darkness and light. I have seen her in my dreams. She has been the night hag sitting on my chest choking me, a beautiful seductress pulling me to her breasts, an ancient witch showing me shelf upon shelf of occult tomes. She was there in my Father’s fist connecting with my head. She was there in my absolute refusal to submit. True Lilith is conjunct my Sun. I have touched that black murderous rage, felt invisible, experienced her absolute sense of connection. I remember floating in space, vast and beautiful hearing her whisper songs of the stars. And I see her looking back at me sometimes in the mirror – and then with a cackle she’s gone.

Sources and Resources
Astro.com Swiss Ephemeris details
Astro.com Lilith Article
Mountain Astrologer Article by Kelley Hunter

To find Mean and True Lilith in your chart at Astro.com
Create your Chart here

Astro.com defaults to mean Lilith.

If you want to find True Lilith in your chart, type in h13 in ‘additional objects under Free Horoscopes – Horoscope Chart Drawings – Extended Chart Selection

Want to know more about Lilith in your chart? Readings Available

42 comments for “Black Moon Lilith – Mean Bitch or True Witch?

  1. NR
    January 29, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    Wow. When I start working with her, I’ll reference your work.

  2. Leah Whitehorse
    January 29, 2012 at 8:19 pm

    Thanks Neeti – she’s a little bit addictive!

  3. chloe
    January 30, 2012 at 6:31 am

    wow beautifully said :) question: is this the same as north/south node?

  4. January 30, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    Thank you so much for this article, Leah. I love Lilith and I have allways worked with it. I have a strong one myself: Balck Moon Lilith in Capricorn, square to my Hades Moon and opposite Saturn. Ah! And conjunct my North Node in the 6th house.

    I’m waiting for the next article. Only few people talk about Lilith (the darkest fears of the colective unconsious!) and write about it.

    This is very enlightning.

    Hugs*

  5. Leah Whitehorse
    January 30, 2012 at 5:11 pm

    Hi Susana – thank you. I’m glad you enjoyed the article. Lilith is a fascinating mystery.
    Black Moon conjunct the Node is very interesting. There seems to be a theme about embracing wildness there :-)

  6. Leah Whitehorse
    January 30, 2012 at 5:22 pm

    Hi Chloe
    Thanks for your question – Black Moon Lilith is a different point to the North-South Node. The North and South Nodes are the points where the path of the Sun and the Path of the Moon cross. There’s a good little diagram and explanation on the following website http://www.astro.com/mtp/mtpt5_e.htm
    The Moon’s nodes can be true or mean similar to Black Moon Lilith

  7. Mary Lawson
    January 30, 2012 at 8:54 pm

    Is the Llith you talk abt. any relation to the astroid of the same name. I have Llith conj. Pisces Sun, Pallas, Diana. My instinctive feeling for Llith has always been positive. Maybe, just maybe, she travels in and out of our deminsion. At the moment the tech. parts of what you wrote escape me. I just think that the mythology that she said that she wouldn-t submit to Adam is just what women need as an example. Eve, leaves me cold. Nice, gag, submissive, gag, etc.

  8. Leah Whitehorse
    January 30, 2012 at 9:04 pm

    Hi Mary
    My research has concentrated solely on Black Moon Lilith but I’m aware that there is also an asteroid Lilith. I believe Kelley Hunter interweaves the use of asteroid Lilith as well. I do plan to do some research into asteroid Lilith at some point.
    I love the myth of Lilith – she certainly has her dark side but I think she has a great deal to offer as well.

  9. laurie
    February 1, 2012 at 4:21 am

    this is a great article; i just had a reading done which brought up lilith-i’ve all 3 aspected heavily-asteroid, mean and true. btw, i think it’s interesting that ‘mean’ also means ‘average, as in the statistical mean’, as well as ‘the definition of something-what does it mean?’ when applied symbolically to mean lilith, as well as the nasty mean’; she has so many facets, as does this word!

  10. Leah Whitehorse
    February 1, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    Hi again Laurie
    Yes, it’s fascinating the play on the word ‘mean’. Lilith certainly can bring a sense of ‘meaning’!

  11. Allan
    February 29, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    Wanted to share with you a paper I wrote a long time ago…..

    Priapus, look up him astrologically with Lilith to get a complete
    understanding. The asteroid was named after a lil girl named lilith.

    I have been studying Lilith and the other asteroid goddesses for quite
    sometime. My friend from Belgium taught me something interesting that
    I would like to share with the rest of you, and see if it also applies
    to you all (That area of the world always has been on a different wave
    length of astrology then English speaking countries).

    Lilith works on an axis, the opposite point is known as Priapus (I use
    the Janus the astrology program myself, and in fact it always list
    Priapus opposite to Black Moon Lilith, not Asteroid one). This
    opposite point is what you do in your daily life, and have no-way out
    of doing it. It’s always played out. In the myth of Priapus, his penis
    was so huge that it scared woman away, and punished male thieves by
    using sodomy on them!!!

    Priapus, god of virility and fertility, was the Greek and Roman
    protector of gardens, vineyards, and orchards. Depicted with enormous
    genitals, he ensured fertility and good fortune. His statue served as
    both scarecrow and guardian divinity. He was, moreover, the patron of
    all in need of luck, especially men and women in search of sexual
    satisfaction. Although he is generally depicted as heterosexual in his
    tastes, Priapus numbered among his devotees men who were attracted to other men (go figure).

    His parents are Dionysus, God of Sex, Wine and Intoxication, and
    Aphrodite, Goddess of Love, and brother to Hymenaeus, God of Weddings and Getting Married. When you think of the relationship between all of them, you can see a common thread. OVER THE TOP kind of deal…

    Now I don’t know too much about it, so I’m trying to see how this god
    and Lilith matches up. Lilith is kicked out of the garden; Priapus is
    denied love because his penis is too big…guess penis envy, size,
    wasn’t too important…

    Use the intuitive noodle, because not too much is written about this
    subject, I would love any ones option or feedback. Anyways personal
    option to me is just as valid as some “quote on quote” expert that
    writes an article and uses fancy design to make it appealing to the
    eye. That’s why when I read a lot of these astrology articles; I
    remember first and foremost… most of it isn’t based off of research,
    but of option, and…REMEMBER THAT!!

    It says that Lilith is the point of fascination,where a person feels
    the emotional urge to grow beyond themselves. It`s the point where a
    person has much power, but often decides to suppress the power. Or she exaggerates the urge to be independent, which often forces her to be distant to other people.

    Priapus now is a point, where you feel rather powerless. But at this
    point you have a strong capability and longing to merge with others,
    to feel for them, to develop empathy and basically it`s the point
    where you can adapt to others to the point of losing yourself.

    Priapus is also the god of health and fertility (son of Venus and
    Bacchus / Dionysos). And it seems, according to mythology, he was
    having a constant erection. Well, what could you expect of a God, who
    is son of the goddess of erotic love and the god of extasy? lol
    But I think it just symbolizes that he is very much in touch with the
    earth, with all instincts, with a strong desire to merge and become
    ONE with earth / life.

    Maybe the difference between Lilith and Priapus is like this:
    Both are driven by very strong desires.
    But Lilith demands to be equal, independent, to voluntarily turn to
    someone, or else she will repell or be repelled. She can`t make any
    compromises. In the best sense she`s painfully truthful, and she makes
    great sacrifices (like being rejected from society) to maintain her
    independence.

    Priapos on the other hand has such a great need to merge, that he will
    sacrifice the truth for it. He will make any compromises that are
    necessary to be close to someone. But since PRiapos is also a male
    God, he seems to be also prone to become sexually violent or absusive,
    to force closeness to his “object of affection”.

    At least the myth tell about him attempting to rape at least two
    goddesses / nymphs. But every time the rape has been interrupted,
    before it could be done, and Priapus has been kicked out.
    He is a nasty little god, isn`t he? At least in the myth.
    But on the positive side he has a very direct access to his fertility and lust.

    I`m not really sure what to make of it astrologically. But maybe
    Priapus depicts a point in the horoscope where there is an
    overwhelming urge to merge, which may become so overwhelming and
    desperate that you may humilate yourself, by committing really low
    acts (be they destructive towards others as in an attempted rape. or
    be they selfdestructive, by “offering” yourself, even if you know that
    you will never get back enough, so that you will be satisfied; the
    willingness to live a lie just to feel the illusion of merging.)

    But I think there must also be a positive way to see Priapus and
    Lilith. Maybe Priapus can offer that empathy like it has been said in
    that article I mentioned.

    Priapus

    Priapus is mean Lunar perigee. The point opposite the Priapus is the
    Black Moon. Priapus is a mathematical point that corresponds to
    position of the Moon when it is at Perigee (that point in its orbit
    when it is closest to the Earth)

    Black Moon

    The Black Moon is a mathematical point that corresponds to position of
    the Moon when it is at Apogee (that point in its orbit when it is
    farthest from the Earth). The point opposite the Black Moon is called
    Priapus.

    Rather too much sex for either power(lilith) or a sense of feeling
    whole(propias) can be bad.

    i got my Lilith at 2 Taurus….Pluto at 2 Scorpio. its complemented
    with Neptune at 2 Capricorn, Sun 2 Cancer, and the Moon at 5 Virgo.
    thank god im a male lol seriously. Vertex is also 5 Pisces.

    [edited - the above quote in italics was by 'darkdreamer' on Linda Goodman forum http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/015692.html

  12. Leah Whitehorse
    February 29, 2012 at 7:39 pm

    Hi Allan
    WOW! Thank you so much for your comment, thoughts and sharing research. I had come across Priapus in my research on Lilith and was very curious but as yet I haven’t looked further into it. It does seem natural to have something which represents the perigee as we have BML at apogee. I think both have their positive and negative manifestations as do the planets in the chart.
    I think your idea about the concept of ‘truth’ for both Lilith and Priapus rings very true! Lilith certainly seems willing to sacrifice herself or some important aspect of herself in order for the truth to be told.
    Absolutely fascinating – thank you :-)

  13. lexie
    March 6, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    Still trying to make sense of Lilith in my own life, but very interesting. I have True Lilith conjuct my moon pluto conjunction (by less than a degree) in Virgo. I would say I am quite intense and tend to attract intense individuals and situations (have spent a lot of time around people when they were going through loss and grieving). It feels as though these situations have been healing. Definitely relate to the ideas about seeing things below the surface and a degree of premonition. I have a close friend who is born a few hours after me, who also has this aspect and interesting to see how Lilith might have played out in her life, as a point of comparison.

  14. Leah Whitehorse
    March 7, 2012 at 8:28 pm

    Hi Lexie
    Thanks for sharing your Lilith experience. It seems like you have connected with her energies very well. It must be really interesting to be able to compare notes with your friend. I can see how her position in your chart would give a natural predisposition to help others experiencing loss – an intense understanding of the concept of abandonment perhaps and the depths of grief. It’s not necessarily an easy aspect but I think as you say, Lilith can bring great healing.

  15. Charyl
    August 10, 2012 at 2:33 am

    My thanks too to Allen and hostess. and contributors – I’m just there again with her, the mean bitch. Serious she’s on 26 degrees tauras, the evil degree of algol and the moon in transit is approaching showing off her worse side no doubt. . “But Lilith demands to be equal, independent, to voluntarily turn to
    someone, or else she will repell or be repelled. She can`t make any
    compromises. In the best sense she`s painfully truthful, and she makes
    great sacrifices (like being rejected from society) to maintain her
    independence.” and I have just come to this pt. in a relation. But my lilith is conjunct chiron and that bridge or leap of faith already transpired so when I read that Lilith is indeed the 5th dimension, I agreed. It was indeed a great sacrifice – a 58th yr, times running out, it’s now or never leap towards my childhood best friend only to find the infinite me.
    Today I found this site as I wondered what might happen with her on Algol, the evil one. and the moon approaching. Thanks for the works.

  16. August 10, 2012 at 8:00 pm

    Hi Charyl – Thank you for sharing your thoughts and life experience with Lilith. Blessings to the infinite you!

  17. Lilith
    December 28, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    Lilith, the apogee, is empty, hence our capacity to see emptiness. Nothing is ever good enough for her and it is because she tells us what’s missing that we can make improvements. Without this capacity the world would not evolve. That’s why Lilith is wisdom. She knows perfection, and through this wisdom we can propel forward our ever imperfect existence. Lilith will refuse to compromise. And the world will refuse her for this (for now).
    Priapus, the perigee, is the opposite : it represents the absence of evolution hence constant repetition. We need this growing up in order to connect to the world around us. (This is lacking in autistic children.) But in adulthood if we get trapped in the perigee, our life becomes a cycle of dullness. We may think we’re happy, cause we’re comfortable, but we lost connection to our soul and the light in our eyes has faded.
    Given we have not lost our wisdom in childhood completely, it takes strength to uphold the wisdom of Lilith, cause no-one will accept it, let alone love us for it. We may seem frightening to the many, afraid to leave their comfort zone. Very few will love our sense of perfection, yet many will benefit from it. We will be free from our earthly chains to help those who are not.

  18. December 28, 2012 at 5:55 pm

    Hi Lilith
    Many thanks for your beautiful exploration of Lilith! I haven’t worked a great deal with Priapus so it’s wonderful to hear your understanding of it. Thank you.

  19. aleejane
    May 15, 2013 at 10:01 am

    Very interesting article. I have True Lilith and Mean Lilith conjunct my moon and pluto (less that a degree between them), so I do feel this Lilith energy has been very much a feature of my life. I have found it to be quite frustrating at times too, working with this energy and how other people relate to it. I definitely feel I have to hold back in order to be acceptable in this world…maybe I haven’t really found an outlet for this Lilith energy.

  20. May 15, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    Hi aleejane, thanks for your comment. That is a powerful placement indeed. With True Lilith directly conjunct my Sun, I can relate to that feeling of holding back in order to be acceptable. I think I spent a long time trying to hide my Lilith. She can be a frightening as well as wildly creative – ecstatic almost. It’s a giant energy to play with from such a little point in the chart! I agree, I think she needs an outlet – a route to express herself, otherwise I think she has a tendency to bleed through at unexpected moments. Maybe when you find your way of expressing her, she may be a catalyst for emotional transformation giving you a final sense of belonging rather than needing to hold back.

  21. Darkdreamer
    October 28, 2013 at 10:00 pm

    Allan,

    it would have been courteous to indicate the paragraph, when you started to quote my post from Lindaland in 2007.

    Leah,

    I am glad I stumbled across this article. You explained the calculations and interpretation really well. Thank you for that.
    I myself am usually paying most attention to the true Lilith, too.
    However I have found that he mean Lilith delivers surprisingly fitting results as well; too fitting to ignore her, though I am not yet totally sure what to make of this.
    I am still more of a “true Lilith-kind of person.
    In my chart the difference between both is only 4 degrees (mean Lilith on 24 Aquarius in 2nd house, true Lilith on 28 Aquarius in 3rd house).

    After doing some more research, Priapus indeed seems to be a point that varies even more research. I am surprised how often he comes up, along with Lilith of course.

  22. October 28, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    Hi Darkdreamer – Oh I’m sorry the person below quoted without the link/reference. If you would like let me know the URL, I will happily post it here as it was really great information.

    Thanks for your comment. I really do need to do some more research re. mean Lilith and Priapus! True does feel just ‘right’ for me but that doesn’t make mean Lilith ‘wrong’ either. Lilith is a complicated and fascinating lady :-)

  23. Darkdreamer
    October 28, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    Hi Leah,

    thank you.
    I posted it here: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/015692.html

    It`s been long ago, but I guess I must have said something good, if I am getting quoted. So that is the nice part.
    Also I noticed that this person`s Lilith-Pluto-opposition is on the exact antiscion/ contrascion of my own Lilith (true) and opposite/conjunct my 3rd house ruler Uranus. Things like these fascinate the astrologer in me. :)

    I am with you though, true just feels “true” to me, too.
    And yes, Lilith is fascinating. She is resurfacing again and again, since I initially met her. And so is her polar opposite, Priapus.

  24. October 28, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    Lol, very interesting chart connections between you! Thanks for the link, it’s a fascinating discussion. I will add the link into Allan’s comment below so it is clear where the info comes from. And wow, the butterflies! That is just beautiful.

  25. Darkdreamer
    October 28, 2013 at 10:46 pm

    Thank you, Leah.

    However, the quote was just the latter part of Allan`s post, the beginning was his own – I think.
    My quote started from: “It sais that Lilith is a point of fascination”.

    And I have always loved butterflies; actually they loved me, too. When I was a teenager, they would actually always sit down on my shoulder or rim of my glasses. It was weird.
    But somehow it makes sense to me, this symbol for Lilith.

  26. October 28, 2013 at 10:54 pm

    Oops – I’ll correct it in a sec :-) Butterflies are beautiful!

  27. shab
    November 19, 2013 at 4:10 am

    Hi,

    I have my black lilith conjunct exact my NN at 8 degrees Virgo in the 7th house and the man I love (it’s complicated) has his Lilith conjunct mine (5 degrees Virgo). My NN conjuncts his Mars. My Vertex and Saturn are conjunct his Sun exact (18 degrees Virgo). All I can say is that we are both workaholics and that passion is irresistible more from my side. But that Lilith-NN-his lilith conjunction always makes me wonder what’s its meaning?? I’m a Libra… 4 planets in Libra in the 8th house so I am not a psychic just a psychologist lol! But I do over analyze all related to the mind… And I can also get quite detached when I feel emotions are not genuine. Any other ideas??? Thank you!

  28. November 19, 2013 at 9:31 am

    Hi Shab – Thanks for your comment. Lilith conjunct the North Node suggests that part of your path in life is to embrace the qualities of Lilith – getting in touch with your wildness, your own divine feminine. She may (depending on the rest of your chart) be the antidote to over-analysis. Lilith doesn’t think, she just feels. With his Lilith conjunct yours, he triggers your wild desire nature.

  29. aissa
    November 21, 2013 at 11:57 pm

    I still don’t know which lilith I use. the one on Additional objects (astro.com) or the H13 one I am stille confused please help me

  30. aissa
    November 22, 2013 at 12:29 am

    I have my lilith parallel my ascedant and contra parallel my moon, i also notice strong emphasis of dark godess on my asc i have Hecate and Lilith paralleling the ascedant contra parallel the moon

  31. November 30, 2013 at 10:21 pm

    Hi Aissa – sorry for the very delayed response! H13 is Black Moon Lilith (True Position). Lilith in the additional objects box is the Black Moon Lilith (mean position).

    Asteroid Lilith is 1181

  32. November 30, 2013 at 10:30 pm

    You have some fabulous dark Goddess energy there Aissa :-)

  33. aissa
    December 4, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    Don’t worry about it,thank you for reply, I always had a fascination with strong dark women and witches, I am always attracted to plutonian and lilithian female and strong female I always admired independent and strong women and encourage them despite being man

    I also have Eris contra parallel my sun and venus conjunction

  34. aissa
    December 4, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    I also have sun conjunct lilith/node midpoint with 1°47

  35. aissa
    December 4, 2013 at 5:56 pm

    I also noticed by adding my part of fortune to my chart, I have the part of fortune lilith midpoint conjunct my sun, and I think the part of fortune/lilith energy mean person will find fortune in expressing their independence and going to dark places and casting all demons and conjunct sun mean how I express myself activate this energy

  36. December 4, 2013 at 6:18 pm

    Hi Aissa – I think that sounds like a great interpretation of the PoF connection to Lilith and the Sun.

  37. December 4, 2013 at 6:21 pm

    Hi Aissa – I think when we have such strong contacts in our charts with these powerful Goddess archetypes, we are naturally drawn to those who embody that – perhaps to help us really understand these energies in ourselves. I feel something similar as my Black Moon is directly conjunct my Sun.

  38. aissa
    December 4, 2013 at 9:03 pm

    As woman I think you embodie those energy and you indenitfy with them and people will pick up this energy from you just like my sister who has her sun conjunct her lilith I could pick up the lilithian vibe from her.As man,I think it’s diffrent those godess may soften the animus (the masculine side) and give a strong anima and feminine side,men with strong godess energy emphasis in his chart might live around strong women and will be attracted to powerful women.

    Despite their role of soften the masculin side they intensfie the feminie and emotional side,this guy might close to women more than men and he is in touch with his feminine side I think those men have to face their emotion everyday and those godess give the gift of wisdom and insight and calmness symbolized the owl and serpent kunadlini). and for men with dark godess (lilith) I think they are diffrent than man with light godess (ceres,vesta,pallas)

  39. December 5, 2013 at 12:17 pm

    Very true, I agree that the energies work can differently in men and women. I also agree that there is a distinct difference in the light and dark Goddess. Each have their own expression. I have always had a connection to owls. I have an owl ornament behind me as I work :-)
    It would be interesting to study more how these Goddesses manifest in the charts of men and women.

  40. aissa
    December 5, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    I agree with you,further studies will help us know more about those godess

  41. Lin
    May 2, 2014 at 6:18 am

    Thanks so much for this elegant, concise exploration of Lillith. A friend and I have recently begun to explore Her, and your explanations are very clear. Thanks also for the tasty links!

  42. May 2, 2014 at 9:17 am

    Hi Lin – Thanks for reading! Yes Lilith is a fascinating lady :-)

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