Mean or True – which do you use? This is one of those discussions between astrologers where everyone has an preference and opinion. Perhaps I should amend the word ‘everyone’ considering not every astrologer uses Black Moon Lilith. She is a contentious issue in some circles but despite some misgivings, she isn’t going away.
I’m not going to pretend for a second that I understood initially why I made my choice of which Black Moon to use. It was purely based on my association with the words ‘true’ and ‘mean’. Mean is just…well…nasty! “True is the truth” quipped my mind so I plumped for that version.
But as I got to know Lilith and her essence got to know me, I started to toy with the mean version. I’m an astrologer after all and it’s important to figure out what works for each of us in practice. But Lilith turned mean. She didn’t want to play. She shouted me down. So before she truly kicked my backside, I reverted back to the True. Astrologers such as Marina at Darkstar Astrology and Kelley Hunter however have elegantly combined the use of both True and Mean Lilith.
But what exactly are we talking about when we talk about Mean and True Lilith?
I decided to go back and find out exactly what it was all about.
There is a subtle disagreement about what Lilith actually is in the chart. She is described as either the apogee of the Moon or the second foci of earth – huh?
Ok, so let’s start at the beginning.
The Moon travels around the Earth.
The Earth-Moon system travels around the Sun.
In a perfect world, much like those old fashioned astronomy pictures, the orbit of the Moon around the earth and the orbit of the Earth around the Sun would be perfect circles. But the universe isn’t perfect, not in that way anyway 
The orbit of the Moon around the earth is an elliptical shape rather than a perfect circle. This means that there isn’t one central point around which the Moon revolves, there are in fact two. One is inside the earth and the other – well the other is what we call Lilith. Astronomers however would call this other point the second foci. I struggled to get my head around this until I saw a picture of how to draw an ellipse which reminded me of my scary art teacher at school who used to throw various objects at you if you didn’t listen but I digress…
Check out this image here then come back…
The foci are centres of gravity. Lilith in this context has weight yet she is also invisible. Already we have a sense of her – a ghost in the system that affects us even though we can’t see her. It’s funny, in mythology, Lilith is repulsed by iron. The core of the earth is mostly iron. When I look at the two foci, I think of Earth on one side, Lilith on the other like two magnets facing north to north.
But some astrologers don’t think of Lilith as the second foci. From reading around the internet, I get the impression that far more astrologers think of Lilith as the apogee of the Moon.
Let’s go back to the Moon’s elliptical orbit around the Earth. If you check out my image above, you can see that the elliptical orbit will at one point put the Moon at the farthest point away from Earth that she can be. At the other end of the spectrum, she is at her closest to Earth. The furthest point away is the ‘apogee’, the nearest point is ‘perigee’. We see this in action with so called ‘supermoons‘ like that which occurred in March 2011. Supermoons are when the Full Moon coincides with the lunar perigee. At these times, the Full Moon looks super big!
Looking closely, you can see that from Earth’s point of view the second foci and the moon’s apogee are in the same sector of space, at the same degree in the zodiac as each other. So really when astrologers say Lilith is the second foci or Lilith is the apogee of the Moon, both are right. Personally, I take both points into account in the symbolism.
The thing is, astronomers and therefore astrologers have a hell of a time calculating the actual path of the Moon. The ellipse itself isn’t the clear straight line you see on my diagram. It’s wiggly like it was drawn with a seriously bad hangover. A combination of space factors such as the gravitational pull of the Sun tug at the Moon so that she wobbles around us.
So what has all this to do with mean and true Lilith?
Because astronomers can’t calculate precisely where the Moon is moving next, they use complex calculations to get a general idea of her current orbit. The mean orbit simply smoothes out all the potential wiggles in the line by working everything out on average. Once this mean orbit is plotted, the Moon’s apogee (or rather Lilith) can also be calculated.
True Lilith is calculated a little differently. In this case, the possible orbit is based on the moon’s current trajectory. The apogee/Lilith is calculated for that moment. In the next moment, that position may change. It makes me think of pulling a tarot card which predicts the future given the current situation. Change the present and you change the future. Lilith has this prophetic sense to her. A primal call deeply connected to the simple essence of being – and non-being. She is a wild card.
Mean Lilith never retrogrades whereas True Lilith leaps backwards and forwards through the zodiac seeming to echo her flight from the Garden of Paradise. Her eccentric course seems to say “I will go where I please – the hell with you!”. This wild motion to me seems more representative of Lilith’s energy. By re-visiting points or planets in the chart, she seems to be insisting we listen to her. By repetition, she makes her presence known.
True Lilith is technically called the ‘osculating apogee’. I’d not come across the word ‘osculating’ before so, ever the English student I looked up the meaning. It’s derived from the Latin word meaning ‘to kiss‘. Whilst I was there, I also looked up the etymology of ‘apogee‘ – it means ‘away from Earth’.
But what is most fascinating is this – Lilith is only truly defined when she is either exactly conjunct the Moon or exactly opposite the Moon. At all other times she is simply a potential who may or may not be really there. But when she is conjunct and opposite the Moon, that’s when we see her. The Moon brings her to life – or perhaps like a ghost, the Moon provides the psychic lens by which we can see her. I think there is far more study to do on this. Does Lilith conjunct or opposite the Moon in the birth chart manifest more acutely? In these positions is she given a voice like a spirit speaking through a medium? I have noticed some very stark manifestations in charts of clients who have True Lilith conjunct the Moon. More on that to come in the future.
I adore Lilith – both her darkness and light. I have seen her in my dreams. She has been the night hag sitting on my chest choking me, a beautiful seductress pulling me to her breasts, an ancient witch showing me shelf upon shelf of occult tomes. She was there in my Father’s fist connecting with my head. She was there in my absolute refusal to submit. True Lilith is conjunct my Sun. I have touched that black murderous rage, felt invisible, experienced her absolute sense of connection. I remember floating in space, vast and beautiful hearing her whisper songs of the stars. And I see her looking back at me sometimes in the mirror – and then with a cackle she’s gone.
Sources and Resources
Astro.com Swiss Ephemeris details
Astro.com Lilith Article
Mountain Astrologer Article by Kelley Hunter
To find Mean and True Lilith in your chart at Astro.com
Create your Chart here
Astro.com defaults to mean Lilith.
If you want to find True Lilith in your chart, type in h13 in ‘additional objects under Free Horoscopes – Horoscope Chart Drawings – Extended Chart Selection
Want to know more about Lilith in your chart? 
Wow. When I start working with her, I’ll reference your work.
Thanks Neeti – she’s a little bit addictive!
wow beautifully said
question: is this the same as north/south node?
Thank you so much for this article, Leah. I love Lilith and I have allways worked with it. I have a strong one myself: Balck Moon Lilith in Capricorn, square to my Hades Moon and opposite Saturn. Ah! And conjunct my North Node in the 6th house.
I’m waiting for the next article. Only few people talk about Lilith (the darkest fears of the colective unconsious!) and write about it.
This is very enlightning.
Hugs*
Hi Susana – thank you. I’m glad you enjoyed the article. Lilith is a fascinating mystery.
Black Moon conjunct the Node is very interesting. There seems to be a theme about embracing wildness there
Hi Chloe
Thanks for your question – Black Moon Lilith is a different point to the North-South Node. The North and South Nodes are the points where the path of the Sun and the Path of the Moon cross. There’s a good little diagram and explanation on the following website http://www.astro.com/mtp/mtpt5_e.htm
The Moon’s nodes can be true or mean similar to Black Moon Lilith
Is the Llith you talk abt. any relation to the astroid of the same name. I have Llith conj. Pisces Sun, Pallas, Diana. My instinctive feeling for Llith has always been positive. Maybe, just maybe, she travels in and out of our deminsion. At the moment the tech. parts of what you wrote escape me. I just think that the mythology that she said that she wouldn-t submit to Adam is just what women need as an example. Eve, leaves me cold. Nice, gag, submissive, gag, etc.
Hi Mary
My research has concentrated solely on Black Moon Lilith but I’m aware that there is also an asteroid Lilith. I believe Kelley Hunter interweaves the use of asteroid Lilith as well. I do plan to do some research into asteroid Lilith at some point.
I love the myth of Lilith – she certainly has her dark side but I think she has a great deal to offer as well.
this is a great article; i just had a reading done which brought up lilith-i’ve all 3 aspected heavily-asteroid, mean and true. btw, i think it’s interesting that ‘mean’ also means ‘average, as in the statistical mean’, as well as ‘the definition of something-what does it mean?’ when applied symbolically to mean lilith, as well as the nasty mean’; she has so many facets, as does this word!
Hi again Laurie
Yes, it’s fascinating the play on the word ‘mean’. Lilith certainly can bring a sense of ‘meaning’!
Wanted to share with you a paper I wrote a long time ago…..
Priapus, look up him astrologically with Lilith to get a complete
understanding. The asteroid was named after a lil girl named lilith.
I have been studying Lilith and the other asteroid goddesses for quite
sometime. My friend from Belgium taught me something interesting that
I would like to share with the rest of you, and see if it also applies
to you all (That area of the world always has been on a different wave
length of astrology then English speaking countries).
Lilith works on an axis, the opposite point is known as Priapus (I use
the Janus the astrology program myself, and in fact it always list
Priapus opposite to Black Moon Lilith, not Asteroid one). This
opposite point is what you do in your daily life, and have no-way out
of doing it. It’s always played out. In the myth of Priapus, his penis
was so huge that it scared woman away, and punished male thieves by
using sodomy on them!!!
Priapus, god of virility and fertility, was the Greek and Roman
protector of gardens, vineyards, and orchards. Depicted with enormous
genitals, he ensured fertility and good fortune. His statue served as
both scarecrow and guardian divinity. He was, moreover, the patron of
all in need of luck, especially men and women in search of sexual
satisfaction. Although he is generally depicted as heterosexual in his
tastes, Priapus numbered among his devotees men who were attracted to other men (go figure).
His parents are Dionysus, God of Sex, Wine and Intoxication, and
Aphrodite, Goddess of Love, and brother to Hymenaeus, God of Weddings and Getting Married. When you think of the relationship between all of them, you can see a common thread. OVER THE TOP kind of deal…
Now I don’t know too much about it, so I’m trying to see how this god
and Lilith matches up. Lilith is kicked out of the garden; Priapus is
denied love because his penis is too big…guess penis envy, size,
wasn’t too important…
Use the intuitive noodle, because not too much is written about this
subject, I would love any ones option or feedback. Anyways personal
option to me is just as valid as some “quote on quote” expert that
writes an article and uses fancy design to make it appealing to the
eye. That’s why when I read a lot of these astrology articles; I
remember first and foremost… most of it isn’t based off of research,
but of option, and…REMEMBER THAT!!
It says that Lilith is the point of fascination,where a person feels
the emotional urge to grow beyond themselves. It`s the point where a
person has much power, but often decides to suppress the power. Or she exaggerates the urge to be independent, which often forces her to be distant to other people.
Priapus now is a point, where you feel rather powerless. But at this
point you have a strong capability and longing to merge with others,
to feel for them, to develop empathy and basically it`s the point
where you can adapt to others to the point of losing yourself.
Priapus is also the god of health and fertility (son of Venus and
Bacchus / Dionysos). And it seems, according to mythology, he was
having a constant erection. Well, what could you expect of a God, who
is son of the goddess of erotic love and the god of extasy? lol
But I think it just symbolizes that he is very much in touch with the
earth, with all instincts, with a strong desire to merge and become
ONE with earth / life.
Maybe the difference between Lilith and Priapus is like this:
Both are driven by very strong desires.
But Lilith demands to be equal, independent, to voluntarily turn to
someone, or else she will repell or be repelled. She can`t make any
compromises. In the best sense she`s painfully truthful, and she makes
great sacrifices (like being rejected from society) to maintain her
independence.
Priapos on the other hand has such a great need to merge, that he will
sacrifice the truth for it. He will make any compromises that are
necessary to be close to someone. But since PRiapos is also a male
God, he seems to be also prone to become sexually violent or absusive,
to force closeness to his “object of affection”.
At least the myth tell about him attempting to rape at least two
goddesses / nymphs. But every time the rape has been interrupted,
before it could be done, and Priapus has been kicked out.
He is a nasty little god, isn`t he? At least in the myth.
But on the positive side he has a very direct access to his fertility and lust.
I`m not really sure what to make of it astrologically. But maybe
Priapus depicts a point in the horoscope where there is an
overwhelming urge to merge, which may become so overwhelming and
desperate that you may humilate yourself, by committing really low
acts (be they destructive towards others as in an attempted rape. or
be they selfdestructive, by “offering” yourself, even if you know that
you will never get back enough, so that you will be satisfied; the
willingness to live a lie just to feel the illusion of merging.)
But I think there must also be a positive way to see Priapus and
Lilith. Maybe Priapus can offer that empathy like it has been said in
that article I mentioned.
Priapus
Priapus is mean Lunar perigee. The point opposite the Priapus is the
Black Moon. Priapus is a mathematical point that corresponds to
position of the Moon when it is at Perigee (that point in its orbit
when it is closest to the Earth)
Black Moon
The Black Moon is a mathematical point that corresponds to position of
the Moon when it is at Apogee (that point in its orbit when it is
farthest from the Earth). The point opposite the Black Moon is called
Priapus.
Rather too much sex for either power(lilith) or a sense of feeling
whole(propias) can be bad.
i got my Lilith at 2 Taurus….Pluto at 2 Scorpio. its complemented
with Neptune at 2 Capricorn, Sun 2 Cancer, and the Moon at 5 Virgo.
thank god im a male lol seriously. Vertex is also 5 Pisces.
Hi Allan
WOW! Thank you so much for your comment, thoughts and sharing research. I had come across Priapus in my research on Lilith and was very curious but as yet I haven’t looked further into it. It does seem natural to have something which represents the perigee as we have BML at apogee. I think both have their positive and negative manifestations as do the planets in the chart.
I think your idea about the concept of ‘truth’ for both Lilith and Priapus rings very true! Lilith certainly seems willing to sacrifice herself or some important aspect of herself in order for the truth to be told.
Absolutely fascinating – thank you
Still trying to make sense of Lilith in my own life, but very interesting. I have True Lilith conjuct my moon pluto conjunction (by less than a degree) in Virgo. I would say I am quite intense and tend to attract intense individuals and situations (have spent a lot of time around people when they were going through loss and grieving). It feels as though these situations have been healing. Definitely relate to the ideas about seeing things below the surface and a degree of premonition. I have a close friend who is born a few hours after me, who also has this aspect and interesting to see how Lilith might have played out in her life, as a point of comparison.
Hi Lexie
Thanks for sharing your Lilith experience. It seems like you have connected with her energies very well. It must be really interesting to be able to compare notes with your friend. I can see how her position in your chart would give a natural predisposition to help others experiencing loss – an intense understanding of the concept of abandonment perhaps and the depths of grief. It’s not necessarily an easy aspect but I think as you say, Lilith can bring great healing.
My thanks too to Allen and hostess. and contributors – I’m just there again with her, the mean bitch. Serious she’s on 26 degrees tauras, the evil degree of algol and the moon in transit is approaching showing off her worse side no doubt. . “But Lilith demands to be equal, independent, to voluntarily turn to
someone, or else she will repell or be repelled. She can`t make any
compromises. In the best sense she`s painfully truthful, and she makes
great sacrifices (like being rejected from society) to maintain her
independence.” and I have just come to this pt. in a relation. But my lilith is conjunct chiron and that bridge or leap of faith already transpired so when I read that Lilith is indeed the 5th dimension, I agreed. It was indeed a great sacrifice – a 58th yr, times running out, it’s now or never leap towards my childhood best friend only to find the infinite me.
Today I found this site as I wondered what might happen with her on Algol, the evil one. and the moon approaching. Thanks for the works.
Hi Charyl – Thank you for sharing your thoughts and life experience with Lilith. Blessings to the infinite you!
Lilith, the apogee, is empty, hence our capacity to see emptiness. Nothing is ever good enough for her and it is because she tells us what’s missing that we can make improvements. Without this capacity the world would not evolve. That’s why Lilith is wisdom. She knows perfection, and through this wisdom we can propel forward our ever imperfect existence. Lilith will refuse to compromise. And the world will refuse her for this (for now).
Priapus, the perigee, is the opposite : it represents the absence of evolution hence constant repetition. We need this growing up in order to connect to the world around us. (This is lacking in autistic children.) But in adulthood if we get trapped in the perigee, our life becomes a cycle of dullness. We may think we’re happy, cause we’re comfortable, but we lost connection to our soul and the light in our eyes has faded.
Given we have not lost our wisdom in childhood completely, it takes strength to uphold the wisdom of Lilith, cause no-one will accept it, let alone love us for it. We may seem frightening to the many, afraid to leave their comfort zone. Very few will love our sense of perfection, yet many will benefit from it. We will be free from our earthly chains to help those who are not.
Hi Lilith
Many thanks for your beautiful exploration of Lilith! I haven’t worked a great deal with Priapus so it’s wonderful to hear your understanding of it. Thank you.
Very interesting article. I have True Lilith and Mean Lilith conjunct my moon and pluto (less that a degree between them), so I do feel this Lilith energy has been very much a feature of my life. I have found it to be quite frustrating at times too, working with this energy and how other people relate to it. I definitely feel I have to hold back in order to be acceptable in this world…maybe I haven’t really found an outlet for this Lilith energy.
Hi aleejane, thanks for your comment. That is a powerful placement indeed. With True Lilith directly conjunct my Sun, I can relate to that feeling of holding back in order to be acceptable. I think I spent a long time trying to hide my Lilith. She can be a frightening as well as wildly creative – ecstatic almost. It’s a giant energy to play with from such a little point in the chart! I agree, I think she needs an outlet – a route to express herself, otherwise I think she has a tendency to bleed through at unexpected moments. Maybe when you find your way of expressing her, she may be a catalyst for emotional transformation giving you a final sense of belonging rather than needing to hold back.